Tuesday, July 1, 2008

"Doobara Mat poochna... Damn Phool!"

Well, this is the first post coming on this blog! I know, I know, I had promised it will come in a month... but... Anyways, now that I have decided that I will post something by tonight itslef and stop procastinating, I am left with the most important thing; what to write about?!! Like that, I can write about anything, but since this being the first post and all, I kept thinking. And this conversation with my sister-in-law came up to my mind.
I was designing their house at that time and was trying to understand what they were looking for and my sis-in-law said, "Navu, I would like to sit on sunday afternoons and look at rain falling on these huge glass windows, with a small garden of flowers, something like that 'citibank' advert." At that time I thought it was more of an 'image' driven desire. As in, the media had created this 'image' of a lifestyle, which she wanted to follow.
But as I kept thinking it sort of threaded with one other thought of mine, which always springs up whenever i look at these amazing renderings of almost all 'famous' architects. Well, I actually mean almost all of our renders, but lets for now stick to these architects. Its actually like I am nitpicking them, for two reasons. One, they are 'rich and famous'! and Second, more importantly, at some point or the other in our life, we all want to be like them, think like them, live like them...
Anyways, coming back, whenever I see all these renderings, I can never see or feel what my sis-in-law expected me to design for! What she said, was an 'experience' that she expected from being in her home. What all people in and around a building expect, invariably, would be some form of 'experience'! (Coming to think of it, it would be great idea to just go and talk to all those people on the street and listen to their aspirations of buildings coming near by.)
But, in all those renders, which by the way, is the 'most potent tool' of communication of ideas for the Architect, I hardly ever saw or felt those expectant experiences. Infact, all I could ever see was the architects' 'vision', which more often than not is her 'Super-ego'. The dramtic angles, perspectives, confusing lines and detailing all depict the inherent desire to be 'god'. One might argue that, since, we are 'creating' something, why cant we be god? Right, but 'god' has lot of 'sensibility' ;-)
Anyways, coming back again, I dont understand this almost carnal desire to show a 'birds eye view' of a building! I mean, how many of us will fly in a helicopter and look at a building? We might have to foricbly do it in Bangalore, the way the traffic is stuck nowadyas, but still... Also, most of the exteriors images are all 'conceptual' or dramatic, hardly giving out any feeling of space - the experience. And the interiros, are more confusing, with blurred ghosts of people and these photo freezes of planes and angles, as if people have only one sense of eyes and which act as a digital camera, without video option!


So folks, keeping it as an open thread. I have put forth the questions... so think about it and let your thoughts flow down here, without inhibitions of what you feel;
That I am damn fool, one of that clormint's "doobara mat poochna" types? Is it the attitude that we look at architecutral design as a higly elitist creative art? Whether Building renders themsleves are very flimsy to communicate our ideas, and we should look at some other communicating means? If so, why do people say Image speaks more than words?!!!
well keep them coming and coming...
B.L.Naveen
2004 passout, GIT architecture.
(This would be a sort of unofficial format for signing off, as this being a blog with lot of authors, hopefully, it would help to sign off giving our names and all. The people in the comment section would atleast know the target of their frustrations.)
To become an author of this blog, which all of you can, you have to log in (please contact Prasad for username and password) and invite yourselves in the 'add authors' section of the 'settings' of the blog. And if you just want to comment, you can go right ahead, and if you are one of those who stand back and enjoy the show, you are also welcome, but I promise, I will pull you in the dirt with me ;-)

41 comments:

Unknown said...

hey gud article . . . n i agree wit tat "bird's eye view" point . . its true tat ppl r not actually gonna go n see hw a buildin looks frm top . . . . . its hw they feel when inside it tats imp !!

Naveen said...

though the name of the post says "doobara mat poochna..." in essence learning is all about asking seemingly stupid questions!!! so People out there who are not comfortable to be open in a public forum please ask and say ( you can even comment by withholding your name / or mail me your comments and i will post them)

Naveen said...

well, one person has asked me if "by tat birds eye view part, did u mean its no use making birds eye views as designers???"...
answering it I say YES!!!
Its stupid waste of time, if you want to express what people would experience. If your main motive is to 'impress' builders/people, or just 'feel good' about your 'design' skills then its worth the effort ;-) just take a look at that bird's eye view of Zaha's building... ain't it impressive?!!!!

shreyank said...

well.... guys... more than that.. let's put it like this... it's showing to people..mainly who are paying to build it and to people who more than wait to write a blog or appreciate what other wise wd hv take a lot of efforts to see it from that point or angle...

and yes ofcourse... the feelgood factor, the impression, the understanding are of course the motive...

well as for the human experience is considered... ya.. they do fail... bt nt always... i'm sure naveen wd agree.. it depends on the presentor... or the artist's skills to convince... or make belive... and i'm pro for these kinda stuffs... dnt u guys watch sci-fi movies? or the harry potter kinds...? dnt u relate to those experiential illustrations?

shreyank said...

actually... there's this entire diff school called "art illustrations". kindly pardon my limited response... i've to go thru the entire article...
both these replies are based on the comments... www.ghull.com/

shilpa said...

i am sorry naveen i do not agree to u completly . . on one hand u talkin of being god, a sensible god and on the other hand u dont want to imagine bird's eye view. . . [sounds like am biased to birds n u to human] hee hee ee hee ...well i just want to say for me its imagining at macro n micro level. . . without which any piece of work is incomplete. . no matter who's view it is . . architects have to reach ther n imagine it. . thts it. . . .

shilpa said...

and sorry yankee i just dont get ur comments. . may be coz am half way sleep will try understanding them tomoro. . . . . . good night

Naveen said...

well to both Yankee and Shilpa,
The main hidden agenda behind this post was to question the basic attitude of we architects. The attitude with which we approach a design.
I feel, that more often than not, we approach with a 'master architect' attitude, one who wants to have a control on most bearings of a building. And also, with an attitude of creating a building 'which looks good/ wonderful/mind blowing, etc'... and this attitude is reflected in our design process also, of which the renders are just the end products, which sort of give away this attitude.
I never said and can never say that we should be gods! In fact, we should become more Human!!!!

Naveen said...

Its not just the question of Micro and Macro level designing. Its more of understanding the issues that a building will open, when it comes to its existence. Are we able to grasp the effect our building creates on people beforehand? or are we happy to please the guy who is investing with these 'impressive' renderings, which are worth framing and putting up in museums? In-fact we are trying to please him, but more often than not, fooling him and ourselves...

Naveen said...

A wise guy once said,"opinions are like assholes...everybody has them".
Heres mine, opinion I mean...
we always look at architecture and the designing of buildings as an image driven, static process...
we start from a sketch, which is nothing but a view of the building from one angle -the perspective... or we start off on a plan / section, which again is the same... and finally when we communicate, we fill in details to these drawings and create renders... which again are static...

Naveen said...

Yankee, good that you brought science fiction movies... In fact, the next series of my posts are going to talk about these... but to put it shortly..
One 'doobara mat poochna' question...
Why do people(I am not talking of designers/ architects) enjoy, remember and become fans these science fiction movies more than these supposedly futuristic building renderings?

shreyank said...

the answer for ur quest is prettey simple... the only people who'll appricate these futuristic renderings are the people who are either architects... or understand smthing bout it, or who are keen bout it... and the rest including the above breed... loves the notion of movies.. .which are much more animated and indulging... and exiting... hence the answer...

the other thing i believe is the difference between the static and the animated... i'm sure if u'd make an animation outta these futuristic renderings... it wd appeal to most of people than the static image... it's the very basic diff between a poster of bajaj pulsar put up in the city... or a magazine and a thrilling stunt add put up on television...

and besides... there's nothing that one can associate to in a futuristic rendering... not even toa vague notion of visiting that building... where's in case of sci-fi... people tend to associate with neo, morphius, the trndy tools and gadgets, with the stunts that they wd neva perform in their life time... with the vehicles... overall there's this associative factor that's missing in these renderings and sci-fi or any movie genre... wins over at this argument....

and ships.... gd nt... ;)

shilpa said...

i have one too, OPINION. . . . . keep it simple stupid. something tht i belive in. i very well get ur hidden aggenda and thts wht i was doing questionin ur basic attitude. . which i got straight from ur statements. . . (sketch is nothing but. . ) how can u call sketchin a static process. . . i mean do u have all the analysis how human mind works how a sketch is generated, wht is it tht one sketches, what is the power one holds in ones hand. how is a mind.. thoughts.. hand.. vision.. intution all connected. . . have u passed all these stages and then saying these things naveen . . or u comfortably opt to be human. . i am curious to know please. .

Naveen said...

Well, I agree that a stekch has been and will be one of the more powerful tool of design thinking and process... When we start with a sketch, the intent is to think and less towards makin a 'ood lookin sketch'.. If so, I agree... that as we think, we fill in details, how the light comes in, the scale of the space, the breeze... etc. But what I as a desiner would be more interested in is to know what is the possible experiences that people will have once they start using the building.. and here the sketch, even the most well thought of falls short. How would the people living in a home that I will be designing share their joys? how will she cry when she is lonely? how will the kid play in a home? I mean, do we ever imagine the way kids use up the walls, for which we must have 'thought and made innumerable sketches for color and texture finalisation? whatever we plan and design changes... and that change is never designed... its never in our control, as we tend to neglect these changes, as our talents are more put in satisfying majorly one sense of vision, and to some extent touch...

Naveen said...

In this sense a sketch, or for that sake most of the way we design, I feel, falls short...
And frankly speaking I am not sure what will help us... but I do have some ideas... which i will share in subsequent posts...

shilpa said...

having nothing against movies. . . still stand by sketches and images rendering whtever. . . unfortunately [ DEFINED ] movies have THE END in their own dimensions. one remains fan till he remembers and watchs it again n again to remain a fan. . where as a pure sketch or a powerful image germinates a seed of imagination into any human who in his own dimensions has his own virtual movie being himself THE REAL in virtual world, , and each time he seez it he has new dimensions to dream . . its a never ending story. . .which no movie can beat.. . . AND THTS THE POWER OF A PURE (i mean it when i say A PURE) SKETCH OR IMAGE HOLDS. . . it wins souls. . . need not win any argument. . . . . .
good night yank

Naveen said...

to elaborate more on my thoguht that sktech, plan or sections are inadequate for wholistic design of experiences, lets us imagine one situation. That of a waiting lobby, it may be anywhere, airports, railway stations, hotels, hospitals...
Have we ever considered, before we do our sketches and all, even after the design is over, what exactly happens in a waitin lobby? I mean, have we ever tried to understand, how people actually behave when they are waiting, and even this behavior changes w.r.t to the location, like its different behavior at hospitals and different at airports. People in hospitals are tensed, and they are looking for INFORMATION, need HELP... do we think before we sketch how would they get it? All we do is place some chairs ( lounge chairs, if its a private hospital) and a nurse station... While in airports, the situation is better... smart people have set up shopping and internet cafes... so people can work while they wait... taking about airports, my friends mom had come all the way from Bijapur to see her son fly to London and she so wanted to see which flight her son was flyin in. But the architect of the airport never thought about her expected experience... so she had to climb up a fence, and peek in trough the slit of some corrugated sheet cladding!!!

shreyank said...

are yaar... naveen... woh koi hajam architect ne design kia hoga fir... lol... (refering to experience of airport) ya true... drawings do fail... but... experiences are so very much based on one's mental map... it's difficult to...talk bout smthing that's so vague... well ofcourse.. i can put fwd my views and ideas and functionality of the building... bt experience..boss... it's one thing i wont bank upon... u c... it's strongly referential and vivid....

shilpa said...

i dont understand one thing why are u separating a sketch or an image. . .from ur thought process. . . . . all the concerns all the sensitivity all the required details all the technicalities churned together at the end silently form an image or the sketch. . . . which is load enough. . . . so its the thought process which is more important or the matter of concern. . . birds eye view, plans, sketches, images are not to be blamed. . they do their job good enough. and so do fiction movies for sure. . but for any of us who make those have no excuse. . . no imprudent piece of work will ever be followed. . . be it a sketch an advertisement or a fiction movie

shilpa said...

i get so many answers for myself thanks a lot naveen. . . will wait for ur next post. . . and prepare mine too, and i understand u yankee. dont take me hard please. . swear was really sleepy last night. . .

shreyank said...

i think it's time to call in some other guys to blab... and ships.. i aint takin u hard yaar... kya tu bhi... kuch bhi...

so is there a conlusion or is it jst like runin on whteva plateaus comes in our way? eh?

shreyank said...

naveen....can v also post topics?

Naveen said...

Shilpa, You are welcome.. That would be the intent of most of my posts... Question yourselves... and thats why all of them are and will be aptly titled "Doobara mat poochna..."
Yankee, there cant be one agreement to most of this, neither a conclusion... you got to find your own answers.. and whenever you do, or come up with new questions, please feel free to post your own post!!! You just have to log in to the blog using the username and password, which Prasad will have, then add yourself as author. And then happy posting :-)
Btw, this discussion will continue for sure... and yea.. please send this over to as many people as you can.. so we have more discussions...

Unknown said...

naveen i think as an architect we should take care of each and every detail . we all know feeling , experience and all are individual thing but a nicely detailed good work appeal great experience,n feeling as universal .

we are in a age where people are using gps google and all as their adress n all. most of us are now using gps system to reach unknown places . google earth or take as microsoft locator , i just want to point u guys that top view , bird eye view is now equally important .

we all know that now we are going up ,
take it as flying or high rise building .

as usual i havn't read much or thought anything just pointed a point as read somewhere about this angle as of no use , please ignore it .if its out of track .

anyway great work guys , its really appreciable .u guys are keeping promind alive .

carry on guys best wishes .

sandeep



.

Naveen said...

Well, shilpa you are right in saying that it is the thought that matters. But, sketching, modeling ,etc are in a way the various tools through which I think! Hence, their limitations will certainly have a limitation on my thought process. Esp., when I am trying to comprehend what kind of experiences are to be designed? Also, how to start integrating them in my concepts and communicate them, to get feedback and crits...
I have come across some such techniques which if I can modify and expand, can help me in understanding the minute details of desired human experiences. I am very much interested in exploring storytelling and its influence on design. More on this on some later post...

Naveen said...

@Sandeep, interesting observation! Since we use so much of 3d maps and location based services and also since we are going taller and taller, the 'roof' of a building also becomes an important aspect of the experience. My only worry is that it shouldn't just be only an visual one, but can it be more interactive or rather, responsive?
I would really be interesting to designing 'roofs' for a map / GPS / Location based service!

shreyank said...

well... i guess for that naveen one need to be very good at cinematography, script writting, and undoubtedly screenplay writing... by being so... one can decide the kinda experience he wants the user to go thru... which can happen thru juxtaposition of objects in space and light...

or... one can build smthing.. and then c wht people feel... u knw.... the unexplored smtimes can be beautiful and exciting at times....

shreyank said...

i knw my obsession of movies is greater than that for architecture...

bt if u c... most of the architects can write beautiful screenplays....
that's wht i believe v do....

Naveen said...

@Yankee, Its great to know that you are passionate about movies! But dear, you got my comment wrong. One neednt be a 'great' cinematographer or photographer, they after all are techniques with their own set of limitations, like a sketch or render. What I feel is important is the ability to tell stories and more importantly to intice people to tell us their stories... and then try to build our own stories out of these...

faro said...

Projection a key word be it attitude of the architect, 3dimensional projection or truth that lies beyond one imaginations or the so called “real world” drawing a reference from the gaily-painted lamp-post which bears the label ‘REALITY CHECKPOINT’.
At the campus of Cambridge University in England .basically It marks the boundary between university and the Cambridge town, similarly we ourselves have built a world of our own which I think is a major factor for having a attitude which we all “HAVE”(truth –take it on the rocks ) towards design or designing . That’s the culprit which is always telling u to forget the rain and let’s do something different (referring rain as in navu’s script) in the process designing we forget the importance of once desire the connection between the person, rain and the way they feel about the space they are looking for. Our involvement in design sometimes over powers the person’s interpretation. Adding to this the 3d projections which take away the charm by enacting the persons feeling. …….sometimes. Lies, ego, attitude, its all in there. As rightly said by navu we need to be humans.
Imagine When we where kids we built castles on the beach the projection there was really different too ….from our friends building the castle next to our’s and then when finished we screamed loud to show our parents wat we built…… Here the view generated the feeling, a dream, (And may be it gave a idea to our parents to make us architects when we grow up lol…..) The idea was to tell that there has to be sense to our architecture.. There has to be truth and honesty which we had when we where kids.
And really do architecture which we really feel from inside and interpret ours clients honestly ………………………..to continue

shilpa said...

entire world is not not sis-in-law. . . wht happens at the end of the story . . .

Naveen said...

There is no end to my stories :-) They are like saas bahu kahanis, going on n on-with twists n turns. No happy ending here, find your own endings.If I find mine,will let you people know. And same applies to you people!!! So happy searching... an ending!

shilpa said...

ok let me put it this way. . . when i said where is the end i meant where is tht tipping point when ur client is convinced . . . . how is it tht one will be sure ur stories their dreams will be manifested into real spaces and form. . may be sis in law will never ask but some people would wanna c how it looks like. with the feelin sure. . . whts ur mode of presentation then.

Naveen said...

@ Shilpa, I got it all wrong isnt it! Well, there are two ways of looking at how to 'present' our manifestation of the clients dreams. One, is to look for various 'means' of communication, build a strong story to convince about the experience - a nokia morph animation (check it out here-http://www.nokia.com/A4879144 ), where through good technique, a very good product is told as a story. But the other way, that I have a hunch, that will help me more is to start initiating the clinets/users in telling their stories, and modify my stories as it progresses. So I dont have someone to 'present' to, but what I have is a combined effort, with me, as a designer, taking the full responsibilty of the design. But its just not my design!!!

shreyank said...

@navin... that's a cool presentation by nokia guys.... this is sm how close to what i was trying put fwd when i meant... skills like cinematography, screen writing and script writing, cms in play... to present one's ideas... convincing enough... i guesss....

shreyank said...

but even then talking bout the presentation that's seen in the animations shown on the website... seem to be heavily inspired by the sci-fi... and techno graphic designs... so very much a mock... (personal opinion) and that's where i guess even architecture is driving to... to mock more and more these sci-fi futuristic movies... scary at times... lol..

Naveen said...

@Yankee, I agree skill does matter, but only to some extent. maybe for intial impression. But if you look closely again at the morph vedio, its the story that it tells - how the future of mobile communication will be - that will remain long time in ones mind!

shreyank said...

@naveen...

ya true... 100% that it does very successfully...

Unknown said...

hey guys its still going on great .
as u know naveen i never read full so again interuptting u guys without knowing main topic of discussion .

1 i got as u were saying that painting or sketch cann't explain thinking it restrict ourself in thought process .
---- i want to say that may be it would restrict to some person but we all know that mind n thought have limitless aura of its own . so u can go on n on but sketch , word painting words , or any medium which ever grasp little helps us to remember what we think and how we can proceed n also how not to miss any detail .
as u said every aspect is important , every sketch capture bit of our thinking and by looking at that and while thinking more on that help us . we can take what ever we think can be enough to remind us ....... for a drop of that ocean.
i think u can get my point as i know u can understand my langauge i know i m not good to express in words .

Unknown said...

hey i was late . yep naveen u got it finally i read most of it now . got a lot from all these .

the urban chronicles said...

hello folks... i still feel i am not so late here.... lol

I found issues well debated upon & cross referenced so far... to find some answers to all comments here..I think i found some of them... this was in an article i recieved by email... Its an article by Ar Peter Eisenman who talks about passive lives lead by us human beings wherein the domains of architecture now stand paralysed by media culture ( i mean all what is said about cinematography..birds eye views etc etc ).. shud be an interesting culmination of all thoughts expressed here.... i hope everybody would find answers therein.... i have put it up as a new post.. pls check the topic : "we want to be them, they want to be us, we exchanged places & thus we stand screwed"

Prasad
GIT Batch-2007